This morning in A History of Philosophy I was reading about John Duns (aka Duns Scotus) and his proofs of God. It was pretty much the usual stuff. First mover, uncaused cause, sum of all excellences . . . all the things that everyone who does this kind of thing gets around to. And it occurred to me that logically and rationally, there's really no argument possible against these Proofs.
It's God, and then there are consequences.
And drop the mic.
And then, as often happens when I read this stuff, I thought about some of my talks about God with friends who did not believe in God. And it hit me.
I'm thinking of two friends with whom I've recently spoken. Both former Catholics, both current atheists, both intelligent people. One reacts to the idea of belief in God with amusement, as if saying, "Yes, there are some adult children who believe that bullshit." The other reacts to the idea of belief in God with anger, as if saying, "You're an asshole if you believe in that noxious shit!"
Which really amounts to the same thing, doesn't it?
Curiously, I rarely bring this God stuff up myself. I wonder why they need to do it? Maybe because I've indicated an interest in exploring the idea of God, and they feel that it is their duty to prevent me from driving off of that cliff.
Heh heh. Maybe they're trying to save my soul.
Once they've broached the subject, I've tried (many times) to explore their thoughts and feelings on the topic. In both cases, they're dismissive. They answer with humor or anger, then change the subject or go off on their own rants. It makes me think of the way that many of my liberal friends will rant and rave about conservative ideas without touching the actual subject matter. As if facts don't matter at all.
And that's just bullshit. A thinking person should be willing to listen to any argument. And although it can be difficult, a disciplined thinking person should be able to poke holes in a faulty argument without getting angry, and should be able to accept any truth (if there is any) that is sifted out from the mud.
But that's not what usually happens. I don't think I've had a good discussion about any intellectually ambiguous material since I stopped teaching high school. It's all just dinosaur bones, man.
Vis-à-vis this belief in God stuff, that essentially means that the No Belief position (in my experience) defaults to creating a space where the person doesn't think about the matter at all, and just fills that space with anger. Or humor, but really, that's just anger laughing, isn't it?
I need some new friends. People who aren't tied down with battleship chains.
And then, as often happens when I read this stuff, I thought about some of my talks about God with friends who did not believe in God. And it hit me.
I'm thinking of two friends with whom I've recently spoken. Both former Catholics, both current atheists, both intelligent people. One reacts to the idea of belief in God with amusement, as if saying, "Yes, there are some adult children who believe that bullshit." The other reacts to the idea of belief in God with anger, as if saying, "You're an asshole if you believe in that noxious shit!"
Which really amounts to the same thing, doesn't it?
Curiously, I rarely bring this God stuff up myself. I wonder why they need to do it? Maybe because I've indicated an interest in exploring the idea of God, and they feel that it is their duty to prevent me from driving off of that cliff.
Heh heh. Maybe they're trying to save my soul.
Once they've broached the subject, I've tried (many times) to explore their thoughts and feelings on the topic. In both cases, they're dismissive. They answer with humor or anger, then change the subject or go off on their own rants. It makes me think of the way that many of my liberal friends will rant and rave about conservative ideas without touching the actual subject matter. As if facts don't matter at all.
And that's just bullshit. A thinking person should be willing to listen to any argument. And although it can be difficult, a disciplined thinking person should be able to poke holes in a faulty argument without getting angry, and should be able to accept any truth (if there is any) that is sifted out from the mud.
But that's not what usually happens. I don't think I've had a good discussion about any intellectually ambiguous material since I stopped teaching high school. It's all just dinosaur bones, man.
Vis-à-vis this belief in God stuff, that essentially means that the No Belief position (in my experience) defaults to creating a space where the person doesn't think about the matter at all, and just fills that space with anger. Or humor, but really, that's just anger laughing, isn't it?
I need some new friends. People who aren't tied down with battleship chains.
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